Tag Archives: Barbury’N

Old To The New Q&A – D-Flow (Ghetto Dwellas / D.I.T.C.)

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Hailing from the project buildings of the South Bronx, NYC’s D-Flow first came to the attention of most in the mid-90s, introduced as a new recruit to the legendary Rotten Apple crew Diggin’ In The Crates via two stellar appearances on Showbiz & A.G.’s well-received “Goodfellas” album.

Having combined forces with long-time friend Party Arty to form the Ghetto Dwellas, Flow’s intricate verses and battle-hardened rhymes were heard on numerous D.I.T.C.-related releases throughout the late-90s / early-t0-mid 2000s, including classic tracks such as “Themes, Schemes & Dreams” alongside O.C. and “Who’s The Dirtiest” off Show & A.G.’s “Full Scale LP”.

Always clearly able to hold his own when sharing the mic with some of the greatest emcees to have emerged from the five boroughs, D-Flow’s standing in the game hasn’t always mirrored the level of his talent, with circumstances and life situations sometimes disrupting the BX representative’s career plans, not least the unexpected passing of Party Arty in 2008.

With his new “Paraphernalia” mixtape due to drop imminently, Flow took some time out to discuss his early days as a member of D.I.T.C., working with Party Arty and future plans.

The Bronx is back!

What was your first introduction to Hip-Hop?

“I was in middle-school. One day I was on a school trip and a partner of mine he had the headphones. You remember when you’d get on the bus to go on a school trip and everyone would be trying to get into something, whether you got a book to read or your music to listen to? Well, I didn’t have anything and this partner of mine next to me had a Walkman. He gave me his headphones and what I was listening to was “The Great Adventures Of Slick Rick”. I was so amazed by what I was hearing with the story-telling and everything. Then from that point, it was on. I was trying to figure out how to do it, how I could hear more of it and where I could get it. So that was the very first taste I got of Hip-Hop when I was about fourteen-years-0ld.”

Growing-up in the South Bronx did you already have any awareness of what was going on in the BX in terms of Hip-Hop?

“I mean, around that time I wasn’t really of an age where I was allowed to be out in the streets of the South Bronx alone. But eventually I would get out and hang-out a little past my curfew time (laughs). I’d sneak in the back of places and get a taste of the jams that were going on in my projects. I’m from Mott Haven projects which is in the heart of the South Bronx. You can’t mention the South Bronx without mentioning those projects. Now, in Mott Haven they had a community centre and in the back of the community centre is this dome where they’ve got a stage with an awning on top and dudes used to get on stage and perform. So that was another early taste of Hip-Hop that I got when I used to sneak into the back of the jams and see what was going on with dudes from the neighbourhood spinning on the turntables trying to come up.”

Did you see anyone performing who went on to do bigger things outside of the local jams?

“Absolutely. I’m right next door to another project called Patterson projects, which is where A.G. is from. Now, when I used to go over to those projects I used to see Percee P tearing the mic down at the jams. This was way before I started doing what I do. But I used to watch cats like him and Lord Finesse and A.G. doing their thing at the time. This would have been around the late-80s. Like I said, I was kinda young so I was kind of unaware of what was going on with them at the time. I knew Finesse was a battle rapper and that he’d battled Percee P and would go to different schools and just tear dudes down. If I’m not mistaken, that’s actually how A.G. and Lord Finesse met through battling each other. But I was young at the time so those were the stories that I’d hear the older dudes talking about. I mean, I didn’t even know A.G. at this time.”

At what point did you actually start rhyming?

“Well, after the jams and stuff like that I started running into dudes on the street, like seeing A.G. in the neighbourhood and other cats from other projects that were close by. Like, over in Mitchell projects there was this group called Hellbound and I remember this guy called O-Smooth who was another rapper from the neighbourhood and also a guy called D-Terror who was from another building in my projects who used to be out there rhyming. I used to see those cats doing what they did and I was just in awe. I was real interested in what they were doing. Rhyming was something that I just gravitated to and it kinda came to me easy when I tried to put it down. So that’s basically how I started, just seeing dudes do what they do and it was something that I loved to hear and something that I loved to watch. So I just gravitated to it and started trying to put my pen game down, listening to different people, emulating what they did, and that’s how I learnt to rap. Then when I went back to show my friends what I was doing they were in awe and liked what I was doing, so from there it was on.”

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At what point did you hook-up with Party Arty?

“Me and Arty grew-up in the same projects. He lived in the building right next to my building and we were actually in the first grade together. I mean, I knew Arty for longer than I knew most of my family members and it was the same for him. He was really a brother-from-another-mother. I grew-up at his house and he grew-up at my house. So we were together all the time before we even started rapping. Before the music it was basketball. We did everything together. I actually started rapping before Arty did. I didn’t introduce it to him because he had an older brother who used to spin on the turntables and write his little raps down, so Arty was kinda in a musical family already. But the idea of us doing something together was something that I brought to him as he was my best friend, like ‘Yo, I think we should do this.'”

So that was when the Ghetto Dwellas came into existence…

“Yeah. I mean we had a couple of other group names which I can’t really remember now, but Ghetto Dwellas was something that we stuck with from the early-90s. That was us.”

Did Party always have that gruff rhyme style that he became known for on record?

“Not at all. When we first started rhyming, Arty rhymed just like everyone else. He didn’t really develop his voice until he started maturing. Back in those days we used to drink the forty ounces, go in the studio and just bug out. I remember there was this one day when Arty was just extra hype when he was rhyming and we were like, ‘That sounds crazy! You’ve gotta rhyme like that from now on.’ So that whole style he had was something that he transitioned into after we started doing music.”

I always imagined him being mad tired after a studio session with the amount of effort it sounded like he was putting into his delivery…

“He was never, never tired (laughs). It was something that just came natural to him. He always made it seem effortless the way he delivered his rhymes.”

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How and when did you officially become part of D.I.T.C.?

“Well, becoming part of D.I.T.C. was definitely something that me and Arty had to work for. A.G. was a little older than us and he was a friend of Arty’s older brother and was a part of that generation. We were like the little guys at the time.   We watched A.G. do what he was doing and put out all that early stuff with Showbiz like “Giant In The Mental” and “Soul Clap”. I witnessed that in my neighbourhood, just seeing all the older cats being excited about it and playing the tape. I remember I asked this guy where he got the tape from and how much he paid for it. He told me it cost him fifty dollars and I believed him! That’s how incredible it was for me at the time. I believed a cassette tape would cost fifty dollars! So A.G. was part of that older generation and we were introduced to him by some of those older dudes who were telling him that he should check us out. Eventually we got with him, he heard us and loved what we were doing and immediately took us under his wing and started introducing us to other cats in different neighbourhoods that we might not have been aware of at the time. So we would go around and we would battle different cats just getting our name up and getting our buzz up, but still we weren’t allowed to go into the recording studio. We were still young dudes who were wet behind the ears and we really had to work for it.”

Were there any particular battles from back then that still stand-out to you?

“Absolutely, absolutely. There was a legendary battle we had on Big L’s plot up in Harlem on 139th. It was actually something that L set up for us because even though we weren’t from his neighbourhood we were still all family in D.I.T.C. and that’s how we all looked at each other. So Big L would be in his neighbourhood and have young cats coming up to him telling him, ‘Yo, this is what we’re doing’ and L would be like, ‘I’ve got some  young dudes that’s doing it the way that it’s supposed to be done’ and he would bring us through to battle cats. I remember this one particular battle you had the Lox out there and Mase as well. There was about forty people out on the block with dudes standing on cars and everything. Dudes were capturing the footage on cameras. You might actually see some of that battle in the Big L documentary DVD that’s coming out either at the end of this year or the beginning of next year…”

So was it just you and Party Arty going up against people?

“We were out there going up against the whole of Harlem (laughs). We were out there for like seven hours and cats were just coming from different sides of the town to do what they do. But me and my man stood there all night with Deshawn as well and we just held it down from day to night. By the time it was over it was night time and dudes were gone already (laughs). It was a real memorable time. I was just happy to be involved and see that dudes were feeling what I was doing. So at that point I basically knew everybody in D.I.T.C. because, like I said, Big L would come through and get us anytime he felt like some kids needed to be put in their place. We were kinda in the mix of everything that was going on at the time. But it did take time for us to meet everybody in the crew. I mean, when we first started going to the studio you’d probably just have Big L in there one night and then maybe the next time you’d have O.C. and Lord Finesse. Then maybe the next time Buckwild would be in there with Showbiz. So gradually we became part of the family and got up with everybody.”

What influence did that have on you as a young upcoming emcee to be around other artists who were already considered giants in the rap game?

“It had a great influence. I mean, to this day, all the lessons that I learnt back then from being around those dudes I still apply to what I do. The way I do my music, the type of music that I do. That’s my family right there and their influence just rubs right off. I mean, I got to be around so many talented artists from being with the crew up in D&D Studios and Chung King. I got to experience so much at such a young age that I felt like a vet at the age of twenty-one. It really opened my eyes as well to all the hard work that went into making the records, like with the mixing process, the mastering process, dealing with the reels and all of that. Back then we were carrying around forty pound tape reels from the car up three flights of stairs to the studio and all of that. So all of those details really helped shape and mold me, like seeing how different dudes all had their own different way of working and things like that. Like, O.C. might record his verse differently to A.G. who might record his verse differently to Big L. I got to see so many dudes working through their recording process. I remember one time I got to see Das EFX record and watch how they laid their verses down. I mean, I always thought they went into the booth at separate times to record their individual parts, but they were in the booth together using the same mic and laying their verses on the same tape track. They were in there going back and forth like they were performing a show (laughs).”

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Your first appearance on wax was on Show & A.G.’s 1995 album “Goodfellas” with you featuring on both “Got The Flava” with Method Man and “Add On” with Lord Finesse…

“When I did that first song with A.G. and Lord Finesse it was something I had to work towards. Party Arty was on the album before me, but getting that spot on there was definitely something I had to work towards in terms of going through a process and writing a couple of verses. It was a privilege. I knew there was an album being done and I knew I had to get on that album. So I had to put that work in. Like I said, Arty had already secured his spot on the project before me so I had to go extra hard  and really prove to A.G. that I was worthy of being on there. Once I got on there it was a beautiful thing.”

“Got The Flava” is one of my favourite posse cuts of the 90s – what do you remember about that studio session?

“Yeah, that was definitely a memorable studio session and I’ll tell you why. Right before that studio session Party Arty had been shot three times and he was still recovering when we did that song. Plus, that session was the day we met Method Man. We were all in Chung King and Method Man came through and we were all introduced and he jumped on the song. At the time, Method Man was Arty’s favourite artist so that was a real good day. I’ll never forget that day.”

Was Method Man actually supposed to be on that track originally?

“He was actually on tour at the time and had left the tour to come back to New York to take care of something. I think he was just coming to the studio to drop something off or maybe pick something up or whatever. We happened to meet in the lobby and I introduced myself, told Meth who I was and who I was there working with and it was all love from there. Method Man came into the session and we just vibed out for about three hours. That’s exactly how it happened.”

I remember that Method Man appearance really stood-out because that was the first time that a major emcee unaffiliated with the D.I.T.C. camp had featured on a Showbiz & A.G. track…

“Right, right. Well back then, D.I.T.C. felt they really didn’t need any extra emcees guesting on their projects. As a crew they really had it all together themselves. I actually think putting Method Man on “Got The Flava” was something that A.G. wanted to do for me and Arty because like I said, Method Man was Arty’s favourite artist. So I think A.G. asking Meth to get on that track was something that he did for us. If that had just been a track that A.G. was on I don’t think that would have been his first thought back then to ask someone outside the crew to get on it. But being as we were all on the song together, that was perfect.”

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Around that time how much work were you actually doing in the studio with Arty on Ghetto Dwellas material?

“We were consistently working. We weren’t necessarily working on any particular project but we were always working on new material so that we were always ready for whatever opportunities might have presented themselves at the time. We were in it for the ride and we loved to make music. It was fun to us. It was incredible to us to be a part of everything that was going on around us. We worked hard and a lot of those songs that we were recording at that time really blended in with what the rest of the crew were doing. “Make It Official” was one of the first tracks we recorded when we first got in the studio which was produced by Wali World. From listening to that, you could really hear the potential.”

“Feel The Beat” was another early track that’s definitely stood the test of time…

“Yep, yep. I remember all of those songs. Man, you’re really bringing back some memories…”

Considering the reputation D.I.T.C. had built by the mid-90s for delivering classic Hip-Hop, did you feel any pressure knowing that fans would have high expectations for any new artist coming out of the crew?

“Man, I wasn’t thinking about no pressure or anything like that. I just wanted to rhyme. I didn’t care who I was rhyming in front of or where I was rhyming at. I just loved to do it. Whenever it was time to get it in I was always prepared and ready. Like, if you watch that legendary Big L interview with 88HipHop.Com, that right there was totally unexpected. I was just up there for the ride and then it was like, ‘You want me to rhyme? Okay, cool…’ I was always focused and ready to step up. If you actually watch that clip closely you can even see the nerves in my face moving around (laughs)…

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As the Ghetto Dwellas you and Arty definitely built a nice cult fanbase for yourselves – were you surprised by how quickly people gravitated towards you as artists in your own right?

“To be honest, I didn’t really get the full effect of that at the time. We weren’t really doing any touring as the Ghetto Dwellas and I wasn’t really getting around too much. The music was just out there and people were listening. The internet wasn’t really that big at the time, so I couldn’t really see the size of the response we were getting out there. So I would get the information through A.G. and other members of D.I.T.C. who would tell me how well things were going with our music when they’d come back off tour and things like that. So I didn’t really get to experience that love until later on. I was just happy to have music out and to be doing what I was doing at that time. I mean, if I’d have got the full effect of what was going on in terms of how people were responding to our music it might have changed who I was at the time and, who knows, I might have been someone different today. But back then, I was doing music and living real life and going through real life s**t. I have two sons and my youngest son who’s twelve-years-old now is handicapped, so I had to deal with that. That was something that I had to be there for. So at some points, my total focus wasn’t music. It was an in and out thing. So what I’m saying is, if I’d have known back then exactly how people were gravitating towards what we were doing and how big our following was, maybe I would have gone a little harder and I’d have been in a different situation today. I mean, it was kinda hard for me back then to see how things were growing from where I was at. I was dealing with real life at the time and it was kinda hard for me.”

Was there ever a full-length Ghetto Dwellas album project in the pipeline?

“There wasn’t really a plan for a full-length album or anything like that because I was dealing with what I was dealing with at the time. Which is partly why you might have started to hear me and Arty appearing separately on certain joints and different projects. That’s just how it was at the time and we weren’t really concentrating on recording a Ghetto Dwellas album. Arty had more time for the music at that point than I did. My eldest son is nineteen-years-old now. I had my first son in 1994 and me and my wife were together for that whole time. Arty had a kid as well but he kinda had a break because his daughter lived with her mother so he was able to be in a lot of places and get a lot of stuff done. But I was dealing with other things. So the Ghetto Dwellas album was never really the focus for all of us. We just wanted to do music and I did it whenever I could. I tried to get on as many projects as I could and was always around but my focus wasn’t always on music even though it was something that was always in my heart.”

Was it difficult for you to step back considering the momentum you’d been building?

“Don’t get me wrong, whenever I was away from what was going on with the crew, I was still doing music. I always made sure my sword stayed sharp in-case I ever came across a battle or something. I mean, the only hardship that came out of that was seeing what maybe I could have been doing after the fact. But that’s normal for everybody. Whenever you step away from something and you see what you’re missing, you always feel some kinda way. But that’s also what kept me loving music. I never want to stop doing music. But if there’s something that I need to deal with at the time for me to make sure that I can continue to feed myself and my family, then I’m going to do that. I mean, if I don’t take care of myself then I can’t do music. But D.I.T.C is my family, so there was never hard feelings from anyone about me doing what I had to do back then. It was always love and I could always walk back through the door when I was able to make music. I could always call my brothers about anything because aside from the music D.I.T.C. is about friendship. I mean, I look on these dudes like they’re my family. That’s Uncle Finesse right there and my big brothers Showbiz and A.G. They know my family and I know their families. They were always there for me.”

When Party Arty passed away unexpectedly in 2008 did you consider stepping away from music or was it a case of you feeling that you had to continue to honour his memory?

“Absolutely. That’s exactly how I felt. At first I had to step back and look at the situation and really deal with what had happened. Arty was like my ear, y’know. If Arty told me something was dope, then it was dope. Couldn’t anyone else tell me any different. If Arty told me something was dope, then I didn’t care what the rest of the world was saying. I mean, I really lost my best friend. But I had to recover from that and I knew the music was something that I needed to continue to do for him, it was something that I needed to do for me, it was something that I needed to do for us because we both loved to make music. I know he’s looking down on me right now happy that I’m still doing what I’m doing. I’m still doing what we started and it’s never gonna stop. Music is a part of my life and that’s never going to end. Hip-Hop is always going to be in my life.”

Bringing things up-to-date, what’s the status of the Barbury’N project you were working on with Milano and Majestic Gage?

“When you’re doing the group thing it’s kinda hard because it never seems to work exactly how you want it to work. At this point, we all thought it would be better to each do music on our own time because it wasn’t working trying to get everyone together with different schedules that just weren’t matching up. So we felt that we would all be more effective musically just working on our own music and doing what we do for ourselves. Milano felt the same way and Gage is still working with Showbiz on his new project along with A. Bless and a new cat Tashane. So Gage is doing that right there, I’m focusing on my solo projects and Milano has his new mixtape coming as well. We wanted to do the group thing first and then branch off to do our solo stuff but, like I said, trying to get three schedules to match is kinda hard so we had to flip it around.”

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So what can people expect from the “Paraphernalia” mixtape you’re about to drop?

“It’s eighty percent original music. I’ve got Showbiz producing on there along with Drawzilla and E. Blaze. There’s only three freestyle tracks on there. Out of the thirteen tracks on the mixtape, ten of them are original. I’m basically giving away an album with this project, you could say. Then after this I’ve got my official album project dropping at the top of next year.”

That album is going to be produced entirely by Ray West, right?

“Yeah, he’s doing all of the production on there. Ray is so unique with what he does. You can tell that there’s a lot of heart that goes into the music he makes. He’s not really influenced by what other people are doing and he’s genuinely doing something unique. It’s Hip-Hop and you can’t ask for no more than that when you’re working on a project. It’s just good music. I love Ray West, man. But the album itself is going to feature me talking about different things that people can relate to. I’m a narrator and I want people to really feel me in their soul and be like, ‘Damn, I know what this dude is going through.’ That’s what you’re going to get on the album, straight real s**t about real situations that hopefully might help cats on the other side of the world get through some s**t that they need to get through. I want to be able to relate to people and I want people to be able to relate to me.”

As a Bronx emcee making music today do you feel a responsibility to both preserve the history and further the legacy of the birthplace of Hip-Hop?

“I think we’re holding on to the culture and the authenticity of Hip-Hop. We’ve got a greater respect for it than a lot of dudes do. When you hear an emcee coming from the Bronx, there’s normally a lyrical thing going on. I mean, I wouldn’t feel right switching sides at this point (laughs). It’s just not in my blood to do that. I mean, music is worldwide now and the game has changed so much that we’ll probably never get back to the music being as authentic as it used to be, but that doesn’t mean that I have to let it go. There’s always going to be someone out there who’s looking for some real Hip-Hop s**t and who wants to know about what’s happening out in these streets instead of what’s happening in the clubs. That’s what I’m interested in knowing about. I want to know what’s happening in these streets right now. I want to know what’s happening in that project building over there on the tenth floor in that corner apartment. What’s happening in there? People are still going through the same struggles. Those things don’t change. But not everyone has to like what I do. I just want to do this and take care of my family off of it. I don’t have to be popular or have millions of dollars. I just want to be comfortable, be happy and live long. If I can do that through music and reach the people that I need to reach then I’m happy with that.”

Ryan Proctor

Follow D-Flow on Twitter – @DFlowDITC – and lookout for the mixtape “Paraphernalia” dropping June 7th on DatPiff.Com.

Show & A.G. ft. D-Flow, Wali World, Party Arty & Method Man – “Got The Flava” (Payday Records / 1995)

1998 88HipHop.Com freestyle featuring D-Flow, Party Arty, A.G. and Big L.

Barbury’N (D-Flow, Milano Constantine & Majestic Gage) – “Living At Still” (Mugshot Music / 2011)

New Joint – Milano Constantine

Milano Constantine – “Games & Things Freestyle” (@TheRealMilano76 / 2013)

The D.I.T.C. affiliate unleashes his standard barrage of heavy lyrical artillery on this brief track from the forthcoming “Alfa Romeo” mixtape.

New Joint – Milano Constantine

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Milano Constantine – “Global Warming” (@Milano7Warriors / 2013)

The D.I.T.C. affiliate digs in his files to drop the full version of this track previously featured on the “Hurt Locker” mixtape project.

Represent – Majestic Gage

Up & Coming TV’s DJ 250 speaks with NYC’s Majestic Gage about how he became affiliated with D.I.T.C. and working with D-Flow and Milano as a member of Barbury’N.

New Joint – Dialect & Despair / Majestic Gage / D Flow

Dialect & Despair ft. Majestic Gage & D Flow – “S.A.B.X.” (UKNOWHO Records / 2012)

The Australian duo team-up with D.I.T.C. / Barbury’N lyricists Gage and D-Flow for this head-nodder from the recently released album “Self Evident”.

Halftime Show Freestyle – Milano

Milano – “DJ Eclipse Halftime Show Freestyle” (@Milano7Warriors / 2012)

The D.I.T.C.-affiliated emcee just posted this vintage freestyle up on his Soundcloud page which is lifted from the 2005 mixtape “Spanish Harlem” – definitely worth a listen while you’re waiting for that new ish.

Milano recently sent me over a couple of new joints from the Barbury’N project with D-Flow and Majestic Gage and they’re definitely reppin’ that ill Rotten Apple rap with pride and true skills.

Bars Of Steel – Barbury’N

Footage of the Barbury’N crew (Milano, Majestic Gage and D-Flow) dropping some rhymes on NYC’s Halftime Show – everyone handles their business in this clip but Gage’s second verse almost sets the mic on fire.

The Constantine Tape…The Best Of Milano Mixtape Download – Milano

The D.I.T.C. affiliate drops this new mixtape featuring classic collaborations with the likes of Showbiz, The P Brothers and Big Pun plus material from his new crew Barbury’N – download here for a heavy dose of that Rotten Apple rap.

Old To The New Q&A – Milano

Having spent the last decade blessing hungry Hip-Hop fanatics with a sporadic stream of cult classics such as 2000’s “Deal With A Feeling”, D.I.T.C. affiliate and NYC native Milano has definitely proven that sometimes less actually is more.

Whilst some artists have flooded the market in recent years with mixtapes and endless freestyles, only to be forgotten as quickly as they arrived, Milano’s considered approach to his craft has helped the Uptown Manhattan resident gain and maintain a dedicated fanbase.

Surrounded by Hip-Hop heavyweights since the beginning of his career, from catching the ear of Big Pun in the late-90s to working with esteemed producers such as Showbiz, T-Ray and the UK’s P Brothers, the Rotten Apple rhymer has consistently honed his talents and perfected his own style of observational, street-wise wordplay by combining the influences of his golden-era mentors with his own new-school flavour.

Now returning as a member of new crew Barbury’N alongside longtime D.I.T.C. cohort D-Flow and recent recruit Gage, the gritty emcee is focussed on building on his already strong foundations to leave his mark in the rap game throughout 2012 and beyond.

In this extensive interview, the man also known as Constantine speaks on working with his new crew, learning tricks of the production trade from Showbiz, and his plans to finally release his much-delayed “Blvd. Author” project.

You’ve recently introduced your new group Barbury’N to the rap world – considering you’ve always been known as a solo artist explain how the crew came together?

“Basically, I was building in the studio with Showbiz and we were talking about how we could still bring that D.I.T.C. flavour out there but try to do it in a new format with a younger generation. Show suggested that we put together a little group and I already knew D-Flow from the joints he’d done with A.G. and Party Arty and then there was a young kid we knew called Gage who’s sick with it, so that’s how we formulated the group. We decided we couldn’t just have a regular name and we were joking in the studio talking about how we kill bars and I said ‘Bars, we bury them’ and that turned into the group name Barbury’N (laughs). It goes deeper than us just looking like savages or something, it’s about how we kill those bars and really give everything in our rhymes. So the group concept really evolved from there.”

Does the music that will be coming from Barbury’N just have Showbiz on production?

“The mixtape project that we just completed just has Show on production, but for the album project Show will of course be on there and we were hoping to get DJ Premier to put something together. I’ve also dabbled in some beats myself so I’ve got two joints on there which are real powerful.”

So Barbury’N is definitely an official group rather than just a few emcees coming together to drop a one-off mixtape?

“I would say so and at the same time I’m still manifesting my solo thing. Hopefully that will give the project a little more umph as you know how fans tend to gravitate towards family-orientated crews. So we really wanted to create some buzz with Barbury’N and then we can still continue to put music out as a group but that buzz will hopefully mean that we can get a little more attention when we drop solo material. I know people are still looking out for Milano solo projects, so my plan is to drop a mixtape after this Barbury’N project and then put an album or EP out soon after that.”

You mentioned earlier about Barbury’N being the next generation of D.I.T.C. which is a tag that you’ve been carrying since you came out over a decade ago with singles like “Deal With A Feeling” – considering the legacy of D.I.T.C. is that something you’ve ever felt pressured by?  

“I just roll with it because if you’re cut from the cloth then that feeling will naturally come out in my music. I come from the essence of it and I’m at where it all began everyday so it’s not something I really have to study because it is what it is. I understand that to add on to that D.I.T.C. legacy I still have to bring forth music that’s high quality and stay in my zone but when I make music and write my rhymes I’m coming from the essence of what this music is, so as long as I continue to do that then I feel that what I bring out will be successful in giving people what they’re hoping for.”

How did you initially become part of the D.I.T.C. family?

“I knew Show through a family member from when I was about twelve-years-old and I always used to run up on him telling him that I could rhyme. Even back then, Show would be like ‘Wow! The s**t you’re saying is crazy for someone your age. You sound like Nas or someone.’ Hearing someone who was already in the game and working with some great emcees say stuff like that really kept me going. So I continued rhyming which then lead to me meeting Big Pun during a cypher up in D&D which is how I then got to do the “Where Ya At?” joint with Pun for the D.I.T.C. album. At that time I was having a lot of fun and really living in a dream world. I mean, Pun was still coming off the success of “I’m Not A Player” and his debut album so for him to say he wanted to do a song with me at that time was crazy. I was like, ‘You’d love to do a song with me?! I’d love to do a song with you!’ That feels like it was a long time ago now, so for me to still be relevant to people today and for them to love the feel of the music I make is something that’s heartfelt and it’s why I keep going whether making music is a lucrative situation or not. It comes from my heart and I think the people out there can feel that in everything I do. It’s just all about me staying in my zone, so it goes back to what I said on that joint I did with The P Brothers for their “Gas” album (laughs).”

Do you think artists today are too quick to try and please everyone rather than actually concentrating on creating their own unique style?

“If you stay in your own time capsule then nothing else around you can penetrate that. You see other artists out there making music that has a Midwest type of feel or has a Southern twang to it now and the music they came out with before wasn’t like that. I just stay in my lane. A lot of artists out there are confused right now and don’t know what to do because of all these new trends that come along. So they make music that sounds confused because they’re trying too hard to be something that they’re not just to keep up with new trends. F**k the trends! That’s all bulls**t anyway because trends come and go but some people still seem to fail to realise that. But I’ve seen artists go through that and that’s why I feel good when I come out and people tell me that my music always has that same essence to it because I just stay in my lane and make the music that comes from my heart.”

With that being said, do you feel you have a responsibility to keep that traditional New York sound alive?

“I feel that I must because I was with the greats like Big L and Big Pun and I would be doing artists like that an injustice if I didn’t come with that East Coast essence everytime that I came out. I’m trying to do my part to help keep their spirits alive and also represent the legacy of so many other great New York artists in my music. You have to do that. I might go off and do something a little different on some digital s**t, but it’s still coming from that original essence because Bambaataa was digital when he came out with Soul Sonic Force. But yeah, I do feel that I have a responsibility to keep that traditional New York sound alive because to know your past is to know your future, so it’s important for these new emcees coming up today to understand what came before them and know the foundations that they’re standing on.”

What do you consider to be the main differences between the underground scene you came up in during the 90s and today’s underground scene?

“The music now is not as strong as it was. There’s a lot of bulls**t out there, and if people keep pushing it out there that it’s the bulls**t that’s hot, then that in turn is going to evolve into there being a lot of bulls**t artists. That’s why I just have to stay in my area because a lot of the music that’s being made today isn’t really what I’m about. I mean, you have the Internet now which is really helping a lot of these young kids get out there. I can’t really hate on the new generation because they’re putting their own flavour in the music, but to me the essence just isn’t there. I mean, of course the music will always adapt and evolve, but I don’t think that should happen to the point where it’s completely removed from what it started as. So I just maintain and do what I need to do. I mean, it’s not as organic as it used to be because some of these kids are doing everything online whereas we were out in the trenches rhyming in cyphers and really having to show and prove. In my opinion, coming up during the time period that I did really contributed to me being more of an all-round artist and I feel privileged to have come up during that time and been around the artists that I was around. It was more about the actual music back then and skills whereas today it’s very much a visual era. Today, an artist can just go to store and you can have someone filming it, edit it properly, put it on YouTube and people will watch that. It’s very much about being seen constantly and keeping your name out there, but people need to remember that you still have to have quality music.”

Looking back over your career, are there any particular moments that you feel helped define you as an artist?

“The whole Pun situation was crazy when I was in that D&D cypher which started off with twenty emcees and then ended with just me and Pun rhyming, so that was something great. I remember being in the studio with Big L one time and he was someone who always wanted to rhyme. There were eight emcees in the studio with us at the time and I saw him tear up every single one, one after another. I was like ‘Wow! He just went bananas on these dudes.’ There was another time I was with L at D&D and we were getting ready to leave the studio and were downstairs. L had a session up there and he leaned out the window and was like, ‘Yo! Give me five minutes so I can lay this verse and I’ll be right down.’ I’m thinking it’s impossible for someone to lay a verse and do ad-libs in five minutes. The next thing I know, guess who’s downstairs in the car with me? I’m like, ‘Yo? You finish your verse?!’ L just looked at me and was like, ‘Yeah, the s**t is done, don’t even worry about it.’ The next day we went back to the studio and heard the song he’d knocked out his verse for in those five minutes. I can’t even bulls**t you, I can’t remember exactly what song it was, but listening to that verse knowing he knocked it out in one take, I was like ‘Yo, I really am around masters of this music.’ It really hit me then that if you weren’t striving to become a master of your own s**t then at some point someone in the crew was really going to embarrass you. From then on, I always stayed on point so that if anyone asked me to rhyme, my sword was always ready. I mean, Pun was the same way with how he approached his craft. He used to carry his rhyme book around everywhere, and he’d pull it out with all these food stains on it (laughs). Whenever I’d see Pun he’d ask to hear something and I literally had to rhyme for him everytime he asked. It had to be something new that he hadn’t heard from me before and it had to be something crazy. That was something that would keep any emcee on their toes. You had to be ready at all times…”

And back then catching a loss in a battle or freestyle session was pretty much considered the be-all-and-end-all to any emcee worth their rhyme book…

“Exactly. You had to always be ready because you never knew when you were going to have to show and prove which could then lead to opportunities. So those are some of the memories that really stand out to me when I think back. I remember another time when I was working with T-Ray, he’d just flown out to New York from the West Coast and he called me up to tell me The Beatnuts were in session downtown for their “Milk Me” album and he asked if I wanted to go to the studio with him. I was like, ‘Of course I want to go to the studio! I love The Beatnuts!’ When we got to the studio they really showed me so much love and were like ‘Yo! You wanna be on the album?’ I’m like, ‘Of course! You’re the epitome of that raunchy, hardcore Hip-Hop, I love that s**t!’ (laughs) So straight away I got on the track and did my thing. It’s moments like that and the ones I mentioned with Pun and Big L that were pivotal in me doing what I do today.”

When you look at crews such as the Juice Crew, Wu-Tang and D.I.T.C. it seemed as if everyone was pushing each other to elevate their craft because there was so much talent within each camp and nobody wanted to be the emcee that fans weren’t feeling as much. Nowadays, it seems like many artists are happy to be mediocre and because that seems to be the general standard rappers aren’t really inspiring each other to step their game up anymore…

“You’re right and unfortunately that’s just how it is nowadays where a lot of emcees really aren’t pushing themselves to keep their skills sharp. But if the overall standard is low then the bar that people feel they need to compete with is also very low. But that’s why it’s good that you still have crews out there in the mainstream like Slaughterhouse and even the members of The Lox who are still showing that you do have to keep that bar raised. I mean, when I joined forces with D-Flow and Gage to form Barbury’N, in my mind I was thinking that those are the kind of crews that we’d be competing with, so we couldn’t come with any bulls**t. So all three of us knew individually that we each had to bring our best to the table. If you’ve made some bulls**t, you’ve got no-one else to blame but yourself. I mean, a lot of artists have a lot of ‘yes’ men in the studio with them telling them their verses are crazy when they’re more likely the worst thing they’ve ever done. We don’t have anybody like that around us in the studio. I mean, even if we think something sounds finished, someone like Show might come into the session and tell us the hook on a track doesn’t sound as strong as it could and needs doing over. So we’ll do the hook again. I mean, when I’m writing my rhymes, I’ll read them over and maybe pick up on a certain word that sounds okay, but then I think I could go further into my brain and pull out a better choice of word for what I’m trying to say. So I’m always pushing myself. But it’s not like that with a lot of emcees nowadays, they’ll write something real quick and be like ‘That’s cool. That’s good enough.’ I could never be like that with my rhymes. My whole thing is about being descriptive with it to the point where if a blind person was sitting down listening to my music they would be able to see everything I’m talking about in their mind through my rhymes and really picture it. People need to get back to really putting effort into their lyrics.”

Do you think part of the reason why some emcees don’t put that sort of effort into their rhymes today is because music is viewed by many as disposable now with downloading etc so artists don’t even expect people to be listening to a track or album for a long period of time?

“You’re right because a lot of artists today aren’t trying to make music with longevity in mind because everything now moves so fast. But that’s why, although my music might come in installments rather than a constant stream, I try to make sure that each installment is worthy of praise. I really zone out with my rhymes and I always like to really make sure there’s a marriage between what I’m saying and the music. I just try to bless it correctly and only when I feel that I’ve done that will I present it to the masses.”

Radio has always played a massive part in the New York Hip-Hop scene but in recent years a huge gap seems to have appeared between what’s being played on stations like Hot 97 and what people are actually listening to on the street. How much influence do you feel radio still has in NYC?

“It’s been said before, but if you turn on the radio in New York you’d think you were down South somewhere (laughs). It’s wild. I mean, God bless everyone from wherever they’re at, because every location has had their own struggles to get where they are as far as Hip-Hop is concerned. But now that the radio sounds the way it does, a lot of New York rappers feel they have to transform their sound and emulate what’s being played and that’s where everything starts to go wrong because instead of being originators we’re being followers. It’s a strange time.”

That must really be a bitter pill to swallow though for artists who’re making quality, traditional East Coast Hip-Hop to not get that hometown support from certain radio stations?

“But that’s what happens when it becomes a job to people and the politics become involved along with all the bread and under-handed stuff that goes on to make sure certain records get played. You know how the industry is. But that’s why it’s important to just keep pumping them and building your buzz, playing the game a little and getting those visuals out there for people to bite on, and then it gets to a point where the people at those radio stations have to pay attention to what you’re doing and have to support you. So aside from dropping fly, quality music you also have to show that you’ve got just as much drive and initiative as these other dudes that are coming up with mediocre music.”

Switching the subject, you mentioned earlier that you’re producing beats now…

“I thank God that I’ve acquired the ability to make quality beats. I think when you hear them you’ll flip out Ryan, like ‘Oh s**t! That’s alright. I love how he chopped that up!’ (laughs) I’m chopping samples up like a savage and Show is listening to my beats like, ‘This is crazy! That’s my man!’ (laughs) So I feel great that I’m honing in on that and really coming up with some quality beats.”

Was production something that you always intended to get involved with or did it happen by chance?

“It was always something that I wanted to get into when I had the opportunity. I had a very musical family, with my mother, my father, God bless the dead, and my brother. My father was always into his jazz, so I was hearing a lot of Thelonious Monk and music from greats like that. My brother was all about early Hip-Hop, so I was hearing all the original classics and breakbeats. Then my mother, who’s Spanish, she was listening to all the merengue, the Fania All-Stars, Hector Lavoe and all of them. So that being said, I always had rhythms and sounds in my head, so from early on I was bringing tracks that I wanted to sample to Show and asking him if he could listen to it, do what he do and chop it up for me. But while he was doing that, I was in there watching everything that he was doing and learning how to use the equipment. So it was a natural progression from me knowing what samples I wanted to use, to me actually taking those samples myself and getting it done.”

I’m guessing that Showbiz must have been quite a hard mentor when you were asking for feedback with him knowing you’d be coming out telling people he played a part in schooling you on making beats?

“Yeah, man, for real (laughs). I really took it seriously though and just really watched everything he did. Being around Lord Finesse was a huge help as well, because you know that Finesse is a master when it comes to these beats. I was in the studio watching how Finesse rock out, I was watching how Diamond D bang out his stuff, watching how Ahmed would chop stuff up. I was just in there like a quiet apprentice taking it all in, watching and learning.”

Now that you’re familiar with the production process, has that changed the way you listen to other producer’s beats when people who might want to collaborate send you tracks etc?

“Now, I would probably have to hear something that I think is out of this world because sometimes now dudes will play me beats and I’ll be like, ‘Well, I could’ve made that myself.’ So I’m not going to take a beat from someone that I could’ve done myself. It would have to be something that I think is really crazy. I get a lot of emails from dudes sending me beats and most of them will be something that’s trying to sound like a beat Showbiz or DJ Premier would make. If I want someone to make me a beat that sounds like Show or Premier, I’ll just go get it from them (laughs). But working on my own beats has definitely given me an insight, so I pick up on different things now when I’m listening to beats from outside producers and I can tell whether it was a slap-dash five minute job or if someone has really put their time in on a track.”

Getting back to the lyrics, do you have a particular creative process you go through when writing rhymes?

“Usually, during the day I’ll be out walking in the street, picking my son up, reading the newspaper, hearing conversations, and mentally I’m collecting thoughts and words all day. Then I’ll sit down at night and start putting things together. Maybe a particular word I heard that day might spark a thought, or something I’ve seen, and I’ll just sit and start zoning and creating a rhyme based around that. If I have a particular beat that I’m trying to write to, I’ll be putting rhymes together in my head during the day, thinking of things, and then when I get home I’ll jot it all down and start putting it down. I can pretty much write anywhere though. I’m not one of these dudes who can only write in the studio or something like that. I just kind of go inside myself.  If I was in some small West African village, I could just zone out and write. If I was in Siberia somewhere, I could still write (laughs). As long as I’m peaceful and calm, I can zone out and come up with something.”

You’ve definitely always been an emcee that you really have to sit down and listen to because you pack so much into your verses. You seem to have a real skill for using the streets as the context for your rhymes but then you take the listener outside of that world and give some real food for thought that’s universal and not just relevant to people living that street life…

“I’ve learned that sometimes you can go to far with it and go over someone’s head so it’s not about clubbin’ people over the head with some scholarly s**t all the time, it’s about achieving a balance in your writing so that anyone can take something from it. The thing is, when I was growing-up on my block, I wasn’t selling crack as a teenager or bustin’ guns, but that was around me. So when I started rhyming, I couldn’t say that I was doing that, so the challenge to me was to incorporate what I was seeing in my environment and write about it correctly so that I would still be respected for being street-wise and the streets would still feel me. So I came at it from a different angle just trying to be descriptive, breaking everything down so that when you listened to my music I was taking you for a walk through my environment and you would be able to see everything that goes on there. From a rat running across the street, to someone looking out their window seeing what’s going on, to someone stood on the corner doing their thing. But at the same time, I was no fool, I went to school, I studied English and things of that nature, so I still wanted to give people that proper grammar and then flip it back to the streets. I felt that if I could incorporate all of those elements in my rhymes, then I would really have something. Then once I really started to work at it I really started to move into my own zone and come with my own style that had that balance.”

Unfortunately a lot of emcees today aren’t trying to achieve that same balance though, it’s about style over substance and flow over content. In my opinion, to be considered a great emcee you of course have to have your own style and be nice with your delivery, but on top of just sounding good what you’re actually saying also has to have some substance beyond just being words that rhyme…

“Exactly, and I always bring it back to me being around some of the top emcees in the game early in my career because that was something that I learnt from them. I mean, do you remember when Big L dropped “Ebonics”? That was crazy! Those rhymes sounded incredible but there was also so much thought that went into them. So from early on, I was thinking ‘Okay, this is the level of quality that I have to maintain.’ If you played a lot of Pun’s rhymes from back then today, he could still take out a whole crew with just one verse because he used to pack so much in there with his flow, the imagery he’d use and his punchlines.”

It’s funny you should say that as I was just listening to Fat Joe’s second album the other day from 1995 and when Pun dropped his “Snatch the moon out the sky and blow the sun away” rhyme on “Watch Out” I was thinking the same thing…

“Yeah, I remember that rhyme, that was when he was still known as Moon Dog. But you can hear the hunger in that verse and that’s the way I was approaching my rhymes back then as well because it was always a dream for me to come out but I just never knew when it was going to happen. So I was always trying to write rhymes that went beyond the time I was in that I felt would still carry an impact in years to come, and that’s still how I approach what I do today.”

So what are the plans for 2012?

“We just finished the artwork on “The Constantine Tapes” which is going to be a mixtape with about ten or twelve songs. I’m also looking to finally drop that “Blvd Author” project and we got the Barbury’N album coming after the mixtape. So we’re definitely looking to get our brand out there and I’m also working with a partner of mine to get our own label Fiyah Sounds up and running. So for 2012 I’m just looking to be wherever I need to be to get the ball rolling and let people know that I’m still out here with quality music.”

Ryan Proctor

Barbury’N – “Living At Still” (Mugshot Music / 2011)

It Must Be Magic – Milano

D.I.T.C. affiliate Milano drops this “Magic Freestyle” in preparation for the forthcoming Barbury’N mixtape coming early 2012.

New Joint – Barbury’N (Milano / D-Flow / Gage)

Barbury’N – “Living At Still” (Mugshot Music / 2011)

A welcome return for D.I.T.C. affiliate Milano who joins forces here with D Flow and Gage to drop a raw, neck-snapping slice of quality Rotten Apple rap with Showbiz on production.